[Marlene&Boycie]

Hi

I wonder if anyone could help?

We've had a serious leak in the pond in our garden, you'll have to forgive me, we've only been Koi keepers since May when we bought the house. We have relined the pond, we moved the fish to a temp pool, refilled the pond with the new liner, added the solution to neutralise the tap water and did the tests for ammonia, ph, nitrite and nitrate, all of these were perfect, but the temp pond had very high ammonia, nitrate and nitrite and the fish were flicking and flashing, they've been in the temp pool for 10 days so we thought it best to get them back into the pond where the readings were perfect.

We got them all back in under 10 minutes and they seemed fine. We have a waterfall and they were showing a lot of interest in the side along the waterfall, almost like they are feeding, where one finds something there is a frenzy and they push and shove each other, then they swim off and seem very active. They haven't been fed in the temp pool, it was very shallow and over-crowded, they did appear to be hungry but we thought it best to let them settle in yesterday evening as it was quite late when they were moved and feed them this morning. They have had food and have eaten, but only half the normal amount and this has been over two sessions. The Koi are active but it's not the usual frenzy at breakfast time.

Plus, we've got one Showa who is just sitting on the bottom, his fins are tucked in and even with my few weeks of experience I know this isn't a good sign. Two hours ago he was sort of paddling but not moving with his head much lower than his tail. Can you advise on what we should do? We can't take him out and put him in the temp pool as the readings are so badly wrong. He did pop up and eat something, but he is definitely going downhill.

Unfortunately I've left the readings at home, but I'l answer these questions as best I can:
1) All water parameter readings (current readings)
I can't remember exactly, but I know Boycie was very pleased. I am popping home in a few hours to check the fish so I can get them then if it helps.

[COLOR="rgb(154, 205, 50)"]2) give details of your set up ,"gallonage" filter system " pumps make and model"[/color]
There is 7500 litres in the pond, there is a 20 year old filter with sponges in it, it was turned off for 22 hours while the work was underway

[COLOR="rgb(154, 205, 50)"]3) length of time the pond has been running[/color]
The pond was operating in it's original form for 20 years but the old owner never tested the water and as far as we know constantly topped it up with water direct from the tap

[COLOR="rgb(154, 205, 50)"]4),Also include info on any new fish[/color]
No new fish

[COLOR="rgb(154, 205, 50)"]5) stocking rates (number of fish and sizes " aprox")[/color]
15 Koi - 5 large, 4 medium, 6 small and 6 fancy goldfish

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much.

[Doghouse Riley]

Sorry to hear about your problems.

These are just observations, not specifically directed at you but as much for the many "silent observers" who we know visit this board.

Communication is very difficult on message boards and I've previously put in my "two penn'oth."
I didn't realise you'd had them in the temporary tank for ten days.
Was there a temporary filter used?
This is often impossible and in such circumstances I would have trickled in 24/7 some tap water.

When you put them back in the pool, they would have experienced a massive change in water quality. The received opinion is that under any circumstances, fish can react badly to such things. Where possible, water quality changes should be gradual.

As for them crowding near the waterfall, my fish do that as they've got it into their heads that that's where the food comes from as the water flow tends to push it towards it, so I don't think it would be a lack of oxygen in this instance.

When you drained the pool, did you drain the filter?

Again this is an observation. Filters need the passage of water through them to keep working, as they can "go off" if they aren't constantly working.
As an example, stand over your filter when it's working and smell it. Then turn it off for half an hour and smell it again, it'll smell quite bad, that's the fermentation process working "the wrong way."
If you didn't drain it, again I don't think it would have affected the water quality that much given, it the pool was fresh water.

I can't give you any advice on the fish sitting at the bottom, it could be a number of things, or just a bad reaction to the change in water quality. They have unavoidably been severely stressed and may take a bit of time to settle down.

This is just my opinion, trying to help, but others may have different ideas.

Again, for those yet unfamiliar with the hobby, what affects the water quality particularly in small gallonages (alright "for our younger readers," litreages!) is that apart from the fish poo you can see and possibly net out, a koi normally excretes twice it's own bodyweight in urine....daily!

[Marlene&Boycie]

Hi Doghouse Riley.

I was hoping you would see the post, you've been very helpful in the past I hoped you would have words of wisdom!

We did use a temp pool, it was for 10 days and run on a brand new filter that Boycie had bought, although he didn't realise that he needed to use bacteria to kick start the new filter. He pumped existing pond water into the temp pool and hooked up the new filter and we put the fish in the next day, we now know this should have matured and we feel a bit daft. No excuse but we're a bit in the deep end, excuse the pun! We didn't do a water change over the 10 days but we did add some more pond water to the temp pool after a few days.

There was a massive change in water quality from the temp pool to the new pond, but at least it was for the better, it was also quite a bit colder in the refurb pond than the temp pool.

It does look like they are feeding near the waterfall, it comes from a brook that is mature and has all sorts of things to nibble on and they are working there way along the edge where the water flows.

We drained the leaking pond but we didn't drain the filter, Boycie did his first clean out of the working filter a few weeks ago and he noticed how saturated it was so we hoped that with it being wet it would preserve the bacteria, although our local (small but helpful) Koi garden centre felt that 20 hours was too long and some bacteria would of been lost. If it's any help when we turned it back on there were lots of the little worms that are getting pumped out with the filtered water and they are alive. I'm guessing this is what the Koi are eating

They did settle down in the temp pool after a few days so I'm hoping all will be well now they are back in the pond, I have to admit I don't expect the showa to have made it when I get back home...

Thanks for your help, at the moment I can't imagine a day when we're not worrying about them!

[Davej]

Hiya

Not at all easy to give you anything other than thoughts;

Your fish have been through a lot of late, moving, different environment, change of temperature? change of water, exposure to more polution when in their temporary home.

Any of these alone will stress them, but they have had the whole shooting match.

It could be that they simply need some time to settle down,but I'd be thinking that all the stresses will have put them well below par and given any parasites that were on the fish a chance to gain the upper hand. They have had an ideal oportunity.

First port of call is to check the water is Ok and it appears you have covered this. Second would be to take mucus scrapes from a few of the fish to see what if anything is about.

Hope this helps

Dave

[Marlene&Boycie]

Hi Dave

Thank you for your thoughts, we are very much in the dark so any help and reassurance is much appreciated.

I have just nipped home to check on them and feed them a little bit more which they took much more readily this time, even the poorly one had a bite to eat, now they have eaten they seem to be leaving the waterfall alone and there was no flicking and flashing. I did fear the suggestion of a scrape, we've not got the equipment or gusto to give that a whirl but we do understand how important it is before we even think about treating them. The guy at the Koi store about 9 miles away was very helpful so I think we'll see if we can ask him for some help.

Thanks agian

[Doghouse Riley]

I'm glad to hear they seem to be on the mend.

This may be the opportunity to relate this story, (that I may have told before, but it sums up this hobby of ours).

Over twenty years ago there was a letter in the BKKS magazine from a solicitor. He said he went to the doctor because he was feeling a bit unwell, after a talk and an examination, the conversation went like this.

"I think you are suffering from stress, tell me about yourself."

"I'm a solicitor and I'm always very busy, I'm involved in a lot of litigation."

"That's probably what is causing the stress."

"I don't think it can be that, as I enjoy it."

"Well what else do you do?"

"I keep Japanese Koi."

"Tell me about it."

So he related what the hobby was all about and the problems that can occur with constantly trying to keep them healthy.

"Well, there's your problem, that's what's causing the stress, get rid of them!"

"I can't do that!"

"Why not?"

"They help me to relax!"