bobb's sick koi

bobb · 19-12-2010, 08:12 PM

I have lost 5 koi in the past 4 weeks, the first one to die was sike in the summer, flotting on it's side, swiming a bit and floating to the bottom, then swming slowly but wobly. I put it in a holding tank containing a few plants after about 4 weeks it was fine I put it back in the pond and in a few day's it was back takeing food from my hand. winter has come and the same fish had the symtoms again but was very poorly and died in 3 day's, I have since had exactly the sam sympyoms with 5 more fish advice from a couple of aqurist outlets where a bit conflicting one saying it's a bacteria problem anouther saying it's a parasite. I have treated 2 with one treatment & 3 with the outher, 4 have died, the outher I have put in an aquarium with a dose of stress coat, it has suvived the past 12 hours. None of the fish had any external marks & the guils looked ok.
Could the first fish to go have been carrying something and past it on, I have 9 mor koi in the pond 4 orf 2 comets & a gold fish, so far these are looking fine for this time of the year, all the fish have been in the pond for 6 years and 2 put in last spring. the nitrite test is zero, PH 7.6 , it's usualy around 7.2 - 7.6 Has anyone idear's on the problem I'm dreding going out to the pond in the mornings and finding more sick fish, I have pictures but havent worked out how to get them on the forum yet, have to get a friend to help with it.

markf1fan · 19-12-2010, 08:43 PM

Hi ya and welcome to the forum, i cant really say what it is that is killing your fish but has this all started since you put the 2 new fish in the pond in the spring. did you quarantine the new fish at all before they went in main pond. what temp is the pond on now? is it heated or not? were did you buy the 2 new fish that you put in the pond? have you had a word with them were you brought them from.. mark

bobb · 20-12-2010, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markf1fan

Hi ya and welcome to the forum, i cant really say what it is that is killing your fish but has this all started since you put the 2 new fish in the pond in the spring. did you quarantine the new fish at all before they went in main pond. what temp is the pond on now? is it heated or not? were did you buy the 2 new fish that you put in the pond? have you had a word with them were you brought them from.. mark

Thanks for your reply Mark, the 2 new fish I purchased from Ramsgate Maidenhead aquatics, I admit I did not quaranteen them and it was about 5 months after introducing the 2 fish I had the problem with the fish I had had for 3 years, one of the new fish in the pond is fine the outher is the last one to have a problem and is in a fish tank It lays on the bottom on it's side a lot but seem's to have purckerd up a little and swims better, keeping my fingers X.
My pond is the first pond I have made and after seing several koi keepers ponds I know mine is not that good but does look ok, it's only small 13 ft x 8ft Depth varies 4ft6 to 2ft 6. and the pond is not covered.
The temp at the moment is down to 1 deg C, Last year it went a lot lower we had minus 12, and the pond froze over except for 2 holes I kept clear and went down to minus 3, All the fish wher fine.
So far the rest of the fish in the pond are looking ok I have treated the pond with a parasit treatment as with the low temps I dont think it's a bacteria problem. Thanks again for your reply.will let you know how it goes. Bob

ogawa only · 20-12-2010, 11:25 AM

Hi bob ,

no point treating your pond , the temps are to low mate , what i would do , is , if you can , get a scrape done , or buy a cheap microscope from ebay , as it will pay for it's self in no time , stop all feeding if you still are !

from the sounds of it , fish laying on there side , it's a swim bladder problem , the only thing to solve this is heat , ive rounded your pond gallonage up , 3500 , you could buy a heater , 3kw would do , it would struggle a bit.

if you decide to go this route let us know , as we can talk it through .

sorry to hear about your losses , it's gutting !!!

steve

bobb · 20-12-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogawa only

Hi bob ,

no point treating your pond , the temps are to low mate , what i would do , is , if you can , get a scrape done , or buy a cheap microscope from ebay , as it will pay for it's self in no time , stop all feeding if you still are !

from the sounds of it , fish laying on there side , it's a swim bladder problem , the only thing to solve this is heat , ive rounded your pond gallonage up , 3500 , you could buy a heater , 3kw would do , it would struggle a bit.

if you decide to go this route let us know , as we can talk it through .

sorry to hear about your losses , it's gutting !!!

steve

Thank's for your reply Steve, I have a small microscope I could do a scrape, but I'm afraid I dont know what the hell I would be looking for.
I stopped feeding when the weather changed and temps dropped, I supose it could be the cold affecting the swim blader but the pond went colder last year with no problems. and the previos 6 years.
I am takeing one to a vet that deals with fish tomorrow, it will cost but even if I loose the fish I want to try and find the cause.
I know when I make a new pond I shall have it a lot deeper and covered and a heater just to keep it ubove freezing in the winter, thank's again Bob

bobb · 20-12-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogawa only

Hi bob ,

no point treating your pond , the temps are to low mate , what i would do , is , if you can , get a scrape done , or buy a cheap microscope from ebay , as it will pay for it's self in no time , stop all feeding if you still are !

from the sounds of it , fish laying on there side , it's a swim bladder problem , the only thing to solve this is heat , ive rounded your pond gallonage up , 3500 , you could buy a heater , 3kw would do , it would struggle a bit.

if you decide to go this route let us know , as we can talk it through .

sorry to hear about your losses , it's gutting !!!

steve

Thank's for your reply Steve, I have a small microscope I could do a scrape, but I'm afraid I dont know what the hell I would be looking for.
I stopped feeding when the weather changed and temps dropped, I supose it could be the cold affecting the swim blader but the pond went colder last year with no problems. and the previos 6 years pretty cold to.
I am takeing one to a vet that deals with fish tomorrow, it will cost but even if I loose the fish I want to try and find the cause.
I know when I make a new pond I shall have it a lot deeper and covered and a heater just to keep it ubove freezing in the winter, thank's again Bob

ogawa only · 20-12-2010, 08:02 PM

yeah , is a real pain when things go wrong ..

what could be happening is , over the years , there could have been ammonia and nitrite spikes , these can lead to damage to the koi's system , and mount up over time , leading to a weakening of the system , and a koi's imunity to say , swimbladder or parasites .

its unfortunately a path we all go down , this is why alot of koi keepers panic with high readings , as its not just the spike of today , its the repercussions long term . i hope your vet can help , what you could do is add salt to your pond to help the koi regulate it's self better .

steve

trickydicky · 20-12-2010, 10:12 PM

interesting answer there steve , as you are aware both myself and mark started our ponds this year and both had spikes as the result of new pond syndrome ,so what im asking is how could i help reduce this problem happening to my koi in years to come ?

ogawa only · 20-12-2010, 10:48 PM

it is the bane of every koi keepers life , the annual spikes of both seem to add up over the years , especially nitrite , we've all seen older koi with huge amounts of shimi's , though this could take us down several other routes , one of the causes of certain types of shimi , is the nitrite , and the brown blood disease .

its not an easy one to answer , for the general population of keepers , the easiest way is to heat your pond all year round and keep the filter in tip top condition , and pray you never get any probs !!

but the majority of us , me included , its a case of being very vigilant on feeding , and filter working temps , i usually go by the rule of , if your ever in doubt , just dont feed , its more the nitrite to worry about , as this seems to do the worst longterm damage , to gills and internal organs .

bobb · 23-12-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogawa only

Hi bob ,

no point treating your pond , the temps are to low mate , what i would do , is , if you can , get a scrape done , or buy a cheap microscope from ebay , as it will pay for it's self in no time , stop all feeding if you still are !

from the sounds of it , fish laying on there side , it's a swim bladder problem , the only thing to solve this is heat , ive rounded your pond gallonage up , 3500 , you could buy a heater , 3kw would do , it would struggle a bit.

if you decide to go this route let us know , as we can talk it through .

sorry to hear about your losses , it's gutting !!!

steve

Hi Steve I lost 5 fish 2 others 1 in a fish tank 1 in a 50 gall holding tank, I first dosed the water with stress coat, the folowing day added tonic salt, the salt I am adding slowly over 4 to 5 days to get to the right consentration.There is a marked improvement on the fish over the past 2 day's, the 18 inch one is not laying on the bottom on it's side any more and swims a but the right way up, the small one 9 inch still lays on the bottom flat on it's side, some times the right way, and swimes ok but a bit wobly, this is a big improvement from laying on the bottom looking dead. So I am getting a bit hopefull they will recover, I'm also doseing the pond with salt slowly bringing it up to the correct concentration over several day's. bob