Need to Make a choice Your opinion?

Limey · 02-12-2011, 04:40 AM

Hiya... I posted on here about this a while ago... briefly... I took part in the Migoto-Koi G & S this year, and myself and my daughter each chose a Hagesawa kohaku... then visited a month or so later and was so impressed with what was not chosen Dave of Migoto-koi let me choose some that he would over winter and then I could choose the one I wanted... at the G & S price! Anyway we got it down to a few he put in his special top pond and he is going to send me update pics over next few days... I am going up to see him a week Sunday and he is happy to hold the fish but has had people interested so in fairness to him will make my choice when I go up... I know he has fish reserved if I dont take it... thanks Dave

.

Anyway wanted to start this before I got update pics for a bit of fun to say why I narrowed it to the ones I did and see who goes BAH wrong

. Also will show me up when the update pics come haha... okies here they are.... Before update pics I am really down to a choice in my own head between 3 so will focus on them for comments only...

This first pic shows 2 of the 3... the bottom 2.

The clown nose well... it's there cos Pondy would have liked it

haha ... I just thought it's cute and knew my daughter who originally chose a kuchibeni one for the G & S would like it... and she does

.

The bottom one was an easy pick for me, and the reason is I like the tancho spot on the side... my thoughts are that it is possible as it grows that it will seperate enough to become more defined... when it was swimming it was a different experience when it turned almost like a different fish when the flank showing the spot was visible or not, if you see what I mean

. Anyway, that one like the 3rd one I really liked matches my dreaming of wonder if ....

Okies this is the other that I suppose with 'spot' you could say were my top 2 on the day.... this one I call 'scruffy' - it is the 2nd from the left swimming down. The pattern is messy... but if it breaks as it grows in my 'what if' minds eye could be very interesting... again it's the sort of koi that appeals to me, something that will change and could even change for the better heh. I would have preferred the hi to have extended a bit further down it's nose but not overly worried.

So here is the pic...

Couple of other different pics of this group... Spot and clown at bottom Scruffy just above on left

Clown clear... Scruffy under the ripples and Spot at top swimming right...

Will post the update pics from Dave at Migoto-Koi when I get them, and post which I end up with after my visit... what do you think... is my reasoning off? Could there be development good or bad along the lines I said? Can't wait for the pics to see even this early if thers any change heh

.

Long trip to Leeds from the midlands but always well worth it, looking forward to checking them out in the flesh... daughter coming with me so feel some arm twisting however interesting the others for the clown nose

.

All comments gratefully received

.

pondy · 02-12-2011, 03:14 PM

HMMM for me Dave it would be "spot" or the Button nose one..

nice clean skin, and at this size they could change so much so you have to choose the one you like best after all you gotta look at it.

think to yourself what should you be looking for in a kohaku and see what one has more of the pointers that your looking for. spot has a nice stop before the tail and a nice white dorsal, well placed markings but i think it may have a little beni in the pecs. and yet the button nose has a nicer tighter pattern for my own personal taste

Limey · 04-12-2011, 08:20 AM

The phrase living works of art is so true... thats part of the fascination for me with koi. 2 people looking at a koi and one says X and it's like a light and 'oh yeah didn't really notice that or pay much attention...' Example is the button/clown nose... I didn't really look too much at the nose pattern but Pondy got me looking closely to see where he was coming from.

Kohaku only a recent like for me [yes I know sacrilege] - I like spot and the clown and yet scruffy fascinates me, I think because of a bleed over of my showa love of wonder what might be. I think with kohaku it can be a whole lot easier to predict what a young fish is likely to end up like providing it holds its colour. I have admired the large 'finished' kohaku I have seen over time, just never got very excited about them before. Well I am weird I love goshiki too

.

Thanks for input Pondy mate - its like a substitute when with koi mates at the dealers vat - know its pics but good to get others opinions and have the chat even if its in text and using the pics.

Gazfish · 04-12-2011, 01:44 PM

Hi Dave,

Its always hard to see from a picture and also we all have differing tastes and then trying to product how a Tosai will turn out

no wonder i have so many munters lol.

I think one of the things to look for is to make sure everything is there and in the right positions,fins,eyes and stuff. Then some good skin and a pattern that you like as after all you've got to look at it all the time

Then try to see what the Shashi and Kiwa are like as is its to messy around these areas there is a good chance it will stay that way so try and look for the fish that look tighter.

Hope i have been of some help mate

Limey · 04-12-2011, 09:25 PM

You have Gazza... and totally agree with the tosai choosing... I suppose its the optimist in me that says I will find the one that the breeder down through to the dealer vat... all those ones that have koi in their souls have missed... kinda like finding a rembrant in the loft

.

Seriously though... your comments are well taken. Remember years ago buying what I thought was a great fish, and NOT cheap, and then few days later realised it only had 1 pec fin now how the hell was that missed heh. Happens.

Skin quality and definition of pattern edges I also think is very good advice whatever variety. I have become much more appreciative of kohaku, and maybe have this irrational draw to scruffy to have one that I can see what happens. I do have an advantage with these fish in that I have 2 from a few months ago - and the skin quality and pattern edges is super, and even my efforts haven't ruined the depth of hi... so far heh.

Thanks my mate - the things you pointed out are exactly what I was looking for, a focusing not just for these but the chat you have with a mate or 2 that is looking at bowled fish and saying like that one cos blah blah...

Pics always tough though, and not really the best way to choose heh. Seriously thinking about getting back into showing next year so will be able to hear about my mistakes in person maybe heh

.

Know what Gaz - would have been great to have had a recording of you guys on the muppets trip discussing individual koi... bet there were some gems of conversation there

.

Appreciate you guys taking the time to comment - love the input.

Gazfish · 05-12-2011, 05:01 PM

Hi Dave,

You are welcome my friend and glad it helped

Now the recording of the Muppet's Tour was done on 6 DVDs but had to be edited a fair bit

Limey · 26-12-2011, 02:28 PM

Okies... went to Dave at Migoto-Koi 2 weeks ago as I planned and made a choice... hard to see from pics but they have doubled in size about, and have to compete in Daves top pond with some ig boys for the food but they look great and relaxed and at home

.

Anyways... had some great comments here, and kohaku being a new variety love I kind of always thought what you get as a baby you will get when it 'grows up' - my big thing enjoying development in pattern as well as size making me look elsewhere mainly. In the back of my mind is an intention to start showing at some point. Gazza I think pointed out the hi in one of the pecs of 1 of them, that is an immediate demerit if shown of course, as is too much fin bleed and the show 'pattern' says there should be a break of the hi before the tail. I like what I like and its overall impression. like us all methinks... example is the hi in the pec... VERY likely to always be there, but for me if it had matching hi in the other pec I would kind of like that - a showing demerit or not, it is 'understated' but in just 1 it does distract from the oevrall.

Heh - there are prob some saying what the hell he talking about a kohaku develops THIS way... GREAT tell me

I am exposing myself [steady Pondy :P] to try and learn about how kohaku may or may not develop - we all know what can happen with baby showa, theres your hi now hope for a great sumi pattern that compliements... theres your baby shiro now hope for a great balancing sumi... yes and of course skin quality and hoped for body shape MAJOR factors, without them doesn't matter how great the pattern is. The overall impression will not be there. Ah bleh am rambling heres pics and will try and will try and make little comments only on my thinking... honest :P

Ok... first pic is from the beginning of thread as they were when they went into the top pond in July save looking back....

4 ended up in top pond but the choice is between the top 3 here... Scruffy clown and spot heh...

This is an update pic from a couple of weeks ago - top right is out of reckoning for me so my choice is from the other 3 lower down on left... I call clown scruffy and spot

My daughter Debbie was with me [ if you read the G & S thread you know she chose the kuchibeni - well surprise surprise she loved the clown... so.. it as nearly Christmas so she is now its proud owner >>>

I used Gazzas photo taking tips and took lots but wish I had taken more heh, I may post slightly out of focus shot but thats to try and show best I can any pattern development - I will take more next time Gazza promise... the clown looks like it had its nose painted after a night out and like that... for me this may look unblanced when bigger, and has hi bleed into the tail fin... but maybe if the skin quality is as good as this breeders can be then that may just work for it [?]

Limey · 26-12-2011, 02:56 PM

So... we are left with the 2 that I was kind of fixated on from the start... did you notice

This is for me and here we go....

First Scruffy... this intrigues me [again back to buying small and wondering what will it be...] - will the pattern split and define, how will it - how could it perhaps - is it a fish to show in the future, or more importantly is it one to enjoy as it changes [will it change?]. One of these pics little out of focus but putting it up cos it shows pattern quite well... Clean pecs but hi close to tail not the 'text book' break there but it doesn't affect overall impression for me.

Finally Spot... think I said befrore this is like 2 fish depending which angle you see it... it sort of 'surprises' with its spot

. Love that... this one does have some hi in 1 pec... a shame as it does distract but hey I know it is prob going to stay but you never know...

There we are... so which did I leave behind [ well all of them actually Dave is taking care of the choices over winter] - so which will I be picking up in the spring do you think... which, if any, do you like... which if any do you dislike and why? What is your experience in kohaku development, choosing small to develop/grow on - the breeder is Hasegawa and know breeder is a major consideration... he has an interesting back story.

Choice has been made and will reveal if anyone cares :P Just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts.

Happy new Year all and hope Santa brought you all you wished for.