Photos to guide people in what to look for in koi?

Mattsville · 21-08-2011, 02:02 PM

Hi Everyone.

I'm in the process of building a pond, and I'm trying to learn how to pick good koi, or at least learn what to expect from the koi I do pick. I know a tiny bit from keeping koi with my dad when I was younger - to the point where I know what I like, and the names of varieties etc. but not an awful lot more. I find the descriptions of what to look for in body shape etc very confusing and wanted to try and learn more. Everyone keeps saying that body shape is the most important thing to look for - but I don't know what exactly it is I'm supposed to be looking for.
So here's my idea:
Would people be willing to post a picture of a koi (ideally an "unfinished" koi, tosai is probably best) and let the "experts" on here point out what is good/not so good about it, and how they think it would develop?
If we could then go a step further and comment on value (not too specific - just something like <£75, £75 - £150, £150+) and why they think that, it would be really helpful.

I understand that many people may not want to do this and it could cause problems if someone has paid a fortune for a fish and it gets criticised - but maybe there are enough people out there who wouldn't mind doing it - I think it would be really helpful to people without much experience. Also, I guess some experts don't want to give away their hard earned knowledge to everyone so easily - but others may.

Good idea? Would this work?
Thanks,
Matt

go54nke · 21-08-2011, 04:01 PM

Here' a starter for you Matt, I have a slight advantage here because I own it, and it was bought quite a while ago, so when we have some feedback I can show you a pic so you can see how it turned out.
All coments welcome good and bad, and don't worry I won't be offended.

Female, tosai.... thats all your getting

Mattsville · 21-08-2011, 04:40 PM

OK - thanks Al!
OK so from my non existant experience - I will have a go (and someone please tell me where I'm wrong because I am very much guessing and want to be told!):

Body shape looks pretty good to me - head looks a good shape and nice and broad. Eyes not too close to the mouth and head not too blunt, not too pointy.
Only negative with shape I might guess is that it's a bit narrow towards the tail, just by the back of the dorsal fin, although that could be the camera angle?

To me the skin looks good and white, and even though the beni is slightly 2 tone on the first patch/head I would expect this to come through and even out as the fish gets older and so wouldn't be seen as a bad thing?

I would have thought this would be seen as a good pattern for a kohaku, with the hi on the head not coming down over the eyes and 2 strong patches of beni - and the smaller patch on the right of the photo (left side of the fish) isn't enough to make it uneven - but the very small dot of red on the left side of photo by the dorsal fin might be a problem? Is that classed as secondary hi and therefore is not a good thing? Also is that dark spot by the dorsal a shimmy, or just something in the water? If it is on the fish then that would be a downside as well.

So I would conclude that it's a good fish, good shape and skin, 33cm is a decent size for Tosai amd suggests it could grow to be pretty big, and females are more valuable - but the secondary hi and slight narrowness towards the tail stops it from being a potential GC koi, and therefore would make it fall into the middle of the price brackets I said (If I had to name a figure, I'd say £140 from a dealer).

Can someone who knows what they are talking about now put me staight?!

Thanks,
Matt

Doghouse Riley · 21-08-2011, 04:40 PM

I've always believed Takeo Kuroki's "Manual to Nishikigoi" has some really definitive photos of most of the diferent varieties, as well as other useful information. It was considered the "koi bible" when I first got into this hobby in the eighties.

pondy · 21-08-2011, 06:47 PM

this is always going to be a tuff one guys, because beauty is in the eyes of the beholder! do you want to know what makes a good koi if you want to show the koi? or if its just for you? remembering that we are all still learning!and we dont stop.

the very first thing i look for in both aspects is do i like it? a good koi is one that i like, after all it has to go in my pond.

go54nke · 21-08-2011, 07:17 PM

Pondy, wise words

YOU have to be happy with what you choose, everyones tastes are different.

Also, you can pay a small amount of money and come up trumps with a cracking fish, equally you can pay a shocking amount and end up with a pond filler... even with all the knowledge in the world this is always going to happen. Sometimes you have to take a gamble and keep your fingers crossed. But, with time and a few mistakes made, it gets easier to pick the good ones, along with a good dealer who is willing to share his knowledge.

I would sugest looking into bloodlines and oyagoi as you will get an idea of how well the Koi will do.

Mattsville · 22-08-2011, 12:06 AM

Hey guys,

Obviously it's best to choose a koi I like - but there are certain things that nobody really wants - like a fish that would never grow much or would develop an especially thin or stubby shape or something. Or for the colour to all fade or something like that.

I guess what I'm really asking though is from a showing point of view - even though that's not what I want to buy koi for. That's probably the only way to quantify the quality and get agreeing opinions, and I guess that's what the koi are priced on.

go54nke · 23-08-2011, 05:23 PM

Not much feedback for you to go on Matt, but I cant fault your logic and breakdown on picking a Koi for the future. Here's an article for you to read...

http://www.yumekoi.com/images/storie...june1_2003.pdf

And how she looked as Nisai for anyone who's interested.

Davej · 23-08-2011, 07:52 PM

Hi Al

Is that a UK bred fish?

Dave

Gazfish · 23-08-2011, 08:22 PM

Hi Guys,

This is always a tough one as we all like differing thing and there is no easy fix.

Unfortunately you end up learning by your mistakes and one thing for sure you need to trust your dealer and let them guide and help you through your choices explaining why this one is a good one and this one isn't and it takes a long long time

Hi Al,

Thats coming along nicely and i seem to remember this being a KO UK bred fish good old Maurice