cosmetically enhanced!!!

pondy · 15-08-2011, 09:41 AM

whilst i was at the Essex show i overheard a conversation about a koi and the answer was "well in next years shows i would have thrown it out of the competetion because at some point it has been tampered with" curious to see what this was about i looked at the koi in question and couldnt see anything wrong with it.

I was told when chatting to the show Judges there that as part of the rules if a koi is deemed to have been cosmetically enhanced it should be removed from the show. but up to now this rule hasnt really been enforced. It seems that if a tancho has a nice round spot at some time that koi would have been cut or enhanced by the breeder or whom ever and if the judges think this then as far as DEFRA or the RSPCA are concerned that is good enough.

i pointed out that this would remove 90% of tancho's out of competitions to which the judge replied yes maybe more, and most mauratans and any other koi with interesting head patterns etc.

i spoke further with a group of Judges and they said yes that in 2012 they probably would be enforcing this rule alot more stringently.

so now im in a dilema do i go through all the hard work of taking my koi to shows with the possibility of them being knocked out of the competition because of something that may have been done when the koi was a fry?... i dont think so.

this could potentially bring a hobby which is on its knees already even further down. i wonder if every koi i buy from now on could have a certificate from the breeder saying that it has never ever been tampered with, i.e. the spot or pattern or any other pec trim etc.

what are your thoughts?

Ned · 15-08-2011, 11:59 AM

Innocent until proved guilty comes to mind.

eds · 15-08-2011, 02:09 PM

This is the first I've heard of this and it'll be a complete minefield if it is applied.

Maurice at Koi UK has tanchos every year. Occasionally they are perfect round circles and Maurice never touches his fish. The closest I can see from this year's pictures is on the second row of this page, Koi for Sale page2 but he's had much more perfect than this. Does this mean these fish will be disqualified?

However it might mean that my Tancho with a heart shaped spot may now have an advantage as it's spot obviously hasn't been altered!

pondy · 15-08-2011, 04:16 PM

this id it Ned it doesnt need to be proved. if the judges believe it. thats good enough. end of. full stop.

ED, the rule has been with the BKKS since 2010 and longer with the ZNA, but it depends how stringent the judges choose to be. from what i was gathering.... they seem to be looking into being more critical in 2012.

i could go out and buy a koi with no visable signs of cosmetic enhancements or scars, or even have healed a ulcer or bump, and the judges could deem this as cosmetically enhancing it.

Daran · 15-08-2011, 04:19 PM

We all know this goes on and could guess which fish have been tampered with cosmetically when walking round the vats at a show but how on earth could you prove it ?

As ned said " Innocent until proved guilty "

Mattsville · 15-08-2011, 05:28 PM

I've never heard of this (I'm a beginner) - are you saying that most tanchos are cut to make the spot round?
Do you mean the breeders will cut away patches that make ths spot less round then when the koi heals it will be with white skin or something? Are no scars left?

I don't like the idea of that at all. Surely the whole point of koi is that they're natural. Otherwise you may as well just buy a plain white fish and have the pattern of your choice tatooed onto it!!

Surely the judges must have a reason for suspecting a koi has been altered - more than that it's spot is just very round. Otherwise the best tancho would be the one with the spot that is just imperfect enough not to arouse suspicion - and so people would "alter" their fish to look like that!

john t · 15-08-2011, 05:36 PM

hey mattsvile you might be on to somthing getting a koi to have a tattoo of a human on it instead the other way round.

Gazfish · 15-08-2011, 06:33 PM

Hi Guys,

For me this would be a problem as if the judge "thinks" well unfortunately in my book that would just be a matter of opinion and surely it should not be left to that: eek:

Are judges trained on this side of the hobby and koi cosmetics and also the health side so they know how the wound would heal?

Daran · 15-08-2011, 06:46 PM

Hows its done

V53 1/2/10 Minor Cosmetic Surgery - YouTube

Mattsville · 15-08-2011, 06:49 PM

I see your point Gaz but hopefully the judges have some common sense as well. I would have thought they would only apply this rule when there is pretty clear evidence that a koi has been tampered with, though I have no idea what that might be. Surely "that spot looks too round" is not a good enough reason.

A problem I foresee here is when a judge recognises signs of cosmetic enhancement that the breeder/dealer may have done that the owner is unaware of. If you'd paid a lot for a fish with the intent of showing, and then found out it had been altered and was disqualified you'd be pretty annoyed.

I plan to avoid this problem by never spending enough money on a koi for it to be worth someone's while to have altered it!

Oh - and John:
Some people are way ahead of us mate!